Posted by rodrigo on June 24, 2008 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If I had a son who was a high school football player I'd want him to play for Dan Hawkins.

Posted by bouldabuff on June 24, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I second that Rodrigo. Only one of these kids was a Hawkins recruit right?

This string of arrests seems like the last hurrah of the Barnett era.

Posted by DCBuff on June 24, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rodrigo - agreed.

Posted by BuffSteve on June 24, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The implication that these arrests are the fault of Gary Barnett ("last hurrah of the Barnett era") is absurd. I don't know exactly what was in your mind when you wrote that but to even imply that is laughable. It was Gary Barnett's fault that Bernard Jackson decided to rob someone at gunpoint???

At what point do we stop blaming the coaches that recruit/coach them, the teachers that teach them, the parents that raise them and actually hold the individual responsible for their own actions?

Opinions; thoughts?

Posted by BuffTime on June 24, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you on your point on responsibility BuffSteve, but I think the point that bouldabuff was trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong bouldabuff) is that there is a difference in the type of student athlete that Hawkins recruits and makes an offer to a than the ones that Barnett brought in.

There is an automatic indictment of the program whenever a player (past, current, or future) runs afoul of the law. The whole downfall of the Barnett-era was the lack of control and accountability that was all too obvious. Yes, Tall/RS/anyone else, he was finally fired due to his record and embarrassing losses in his final season, but you cannot deny that there was a lack of institutional control in the program all the way up the AD and President. All of them are now gone and there is a concerted effort to turn things around.

News of these incidents this past year has really put the program back almost to the beginning as far as reputation goes. Hawk and company sadly will need to work even harder than ever to not only convince people of progress on the field but also off the field. All you have to do is read the posts on the main page version of these stories to see the cynicism that a lot of people in the community have about the program. Yes, many of them just don't like football, sports, or CU in general, but there are others who are less zealous who also have gotten weary.

I for one, still believe in Hawkins and his program but it has been increasingly disheartening to read almost daily it seems of new ways that these young men keep getting into stupid trouble. There needs to be a real change at the team level in order to make any real difference. They need to police each other and keep each other out of trouble. The coaches simply can't be everywhere all the time.

Posted by bouldabuff on June 24, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Easy there BuffSteve - I'm not quite sure how saying this is the last hurrah of the Gary Barnett era is implying that it was GB's fault. We are just now ushering out the last of Barnett's recruits and needless to say the last couple recruiting classes GB had were a bit iffy. He could no longer bring in top talent so he had to sacrifice something - character.

Individual responsibility is a great card to play - only if you have a good upbringing.

Posted by IAM4CUINIOWA on June 24, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Buff Steve,
I couldn't agree with you more. I did plenty of stupid things during college and shortly after, but I don't, nor has anyone else, blamed it on my parents or coaches. I screwed up. I took responsibility, as I'm sure these guys are. So why would any of us blame the former coaching staff?
Boys will be boys. Except for the robbery stuff. If that is indeed what happened, then those guys deserve what they get. But as far as the fighting and the alcahol instances, these have gotten blown way out of proportion. I'm not condoning fighting, nor drunk driving, but when you have a target on your back, you better watch you back. And if you're going to drink, you better get a cab,etc.
I'm just tired of the blame game. Let's focus on the positive.
Go Buffs!! Can't wait for FB season to begin!

Posted by BuffTime on June 24, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know some people on this site Tall who have been playing the old "the new coach isn't as good as the last coach and look he even starts his short son at QB"... oh wait, never mind, I forgot who I was talking too.

Posted by archalon on June 24, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Id send my kid to play for Hawkins - the program has had a quick evolution the last few years but there is some truth in that it is still shedding some old skin - they'll be fine.

Everyone - tall included - gets caught up in the quick fix. It takes time. All this will filter out and I guarantee CU will clean up the image AND compete nationally for the next 10 years.

All that said, everyone should quit blaming the school, the program, the the town, etc. and admit that the only blame goes to the kids who put themselves in these situations.

If they are found guilty, hold them accountable. If not, let it go.

Posted by rodrigo on June 24, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Clearly no one can be blamed for the crime but the kid.

But the coach who recruited the kid should be held accountable for the kid being on the team just as the coach bears responsibility for the overall conduct of the program, whether he recruited the players or not.

In the end, this shouldn't be about blame but about what is being done to build a better culture that produces better student/athletes.

Posted by SnowBuff on June 24, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks like we should be back at the Fulmer cup lead now. My fellow island boy got busted! Noooooo.

Posted by bouldabuff on June 24, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well put rodrigo and BuffTime.

Also Tall - come on man, do I need to point out that there is a very distinct difference between being arrested and ticketed? 8 CU football players(current and former) have had legal incidents in the past 6 months - only five of which, I believe, led to arrests. Of those five, not a single one has gone through the entire judicial process. By the way, have you made it to Vienna to Sam Bradford perform yet?

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 24, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

lot of new stories on rivals about CU this week, anyone care to give us an update????

Posted by extrapoint on June 24, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

All it takes is a recipe of liberal politics, arrogant coaches, condescending faculty, libertine lifestyles, racial imbalance and a long-simmering battle between town and gown. Mix well and bake in the glare of competitive media.
(from our buddy Ivan at SI in talls link above)

Ivan managed to describe several conditions that do exist to one degree or another in Boulder but he failed to point out the biggest offenders in the whole escapade (including any one suspected of a crime) was the media and opportunistic politicians on both sides of the fence, Bill Owens included.
Bill Owens, like most other politicians, has a weasel side we have all come to expect.
The Denver Post, however, and their buddies in the ancillary media are the biggest criminals of all.
In an arena where the only thing proven was that a low ladder host for a recruit took him to a strip joint, The Denver Post slandered and basically lied about everything else. The fourth estate ethics were trashed. I'm still not convinced CU doesnt have legal recourse in the form of a heavyweight lawsuit. If I was a big shot in the school admin I would be pushing this to the bitter end. (oh yeah and Lisa wouldnt have gotten a dime)

Posted by baBUFF on June 24, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If Barnett hadn't finished 30-3 and 70-3 he would have been back. If "lack of institutional control" was the reason they fired him, they would have sent him packing with Hoffman and Tharp well before he ultimately was dismissed.

Posted by baBUFF on June 24, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Two problems Barnett had working against him:

1. Poor leadership on the University side.
2. A big mouth.

Hoffman and Tharp were fired because their poor leadership (in addition to Barnett) was seen as contributing to the "lack of institutional control" and Barnett got pummeled by the faculty because of their collective failings. yet he kept his job when the others were fired because he is a football coach, not an administrator. Which leads me to...

His big mouth. When he publicly blasted Katie Hnida in that press clip, he sealed his fate in the court of public opinion. Any support he clung to within the faculty or the community evaporated. All it took was a couple bad losses and a new president to send him on his way.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 24, 2008 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barnet and Company could have used some professional PR help back then. They might all still be here if they handled things properly.

Posted by extrapoint on June 24, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

While Barnett was a good coach, one major problem he had was his arrogance. I saw him in public a number of times he reeked of it. In that respect he wasnt a whole lot different than Callahan.

Posted by houston_buff on June 24, 2008 at 7:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

When things look as dark as they can be-that is when new growth is found. Look at the string/ news/facts and see that the majority of issues are:

Frosh players just entering a new environment (new place and expectations) they have never encountered.

Or former players entering an environment (no school, graduation, etc) that they have not been prepared to accept.

Six months ago I suggested how these issues could be corrected. Is it the school? I say NO-the parents and coaches can only do so much. Accept the bad decisions and support your guys when you can. The world continues to spin. The setting in Boulder is one of utopia and that is why so many continue to post and "look back" at the same s*** that the we did in the day. I was busted twice in town. I did draw the line way before home invasion but I did not have a sick baby or a bad upbringing. I needed a job desperately when I graduated and I got one. A degree from CU set me apart from a lot of people that wanted the same job. Let's get past all the bad stuff-we do in our everyday lives. We have taken so many hits so far, we can take these as well. I will continue to buy tickets and send money to my favorite CU academic programs.

On a lighter note-Did the Nebraska application for the WAC get accepted? I wasnt sure as they may not have a strong enough basketball program.

Posted by shanebug on June 24, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tallisall, 8 is NOT even close. This was written in 1989 in Sports Illustrated: "Since February 1986 at least two dozen Buffalo players have been arrested, for everything from trespassing to serial rape." While Buff fans want to point at other programs and their problems they conveniently forget this period in Buff football. Coincidently it coinsides with the Buff's lone football National Championship. I am surprised that CUKev did not mention this but then perhaps it is because he only monitor's the performance of his "second favorite team."

Posted by BuffMan6236 on June 24, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

O.k.. Here is the contrarian point of view. What I have seen in the past in college football is that the teams that are getting an edge, a physical toughness and an extreme mental aggressiveness start to have this problem.

1989 Buffs, 1994-1997 Huskers, Miami in late 80's and early 90's, Oklahoma in the mid and late 80's (I am talking players here, not the issue of recruiting violations at OK), even USC in early 2000's and let's not forget UT and their problems over the last 3-4 years.

Is this the price we pay for impending greatness?

Is it a price we are willing to pay?

To some extent, I think the anser is...yes. Just not too bad, right?

I'm just being honest here and I know everyone out there is thinking this just a little.

Am I crazy?

Posted by Black_Rob on June 24, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My first cousin (whom I've been close to my whole life) was starting QB for Gary. To this day, he still says he regretted playing for the guy, and never thought he was a good coach or a good person. My cuz never graduated, and barely even watches football today.

Posted by buffma on June 25, 2008 at 12:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As the parent of a former Buff, I find it difficut to understand why everyone is trying to blame some of this on Gary Barnett. I for one really liked the guy. When he was hired he said he would visit every existing player, and it was sooner rather than later when he was sitting in our living room. He paid much more attention to the players academics than Rick ever did. We never saw a grade out of CU until Gary got there. After he arrived we were sent our sons transcript. I saw where someone said he was arrogant, I guess they never met Rick. He is a great guy and I wish him the best at UCLA, but he tried to be more of a friend than a coach. I liked them both, but Gary instilled more discipline than Rick ever thought of doing. Coach Hawkins will do even better. Everyone just needs to calm down and give him a chance.

Posted by nwbuff32 on June 25, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Was your cousin Craig Ochs? If so that might explain why he did not like Barnett.

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Back in February there was an article about BJax trying to get a waiver to play an additional year because of the extraordinary difficulty with his kid and having to miss school...

At the time the suggestion was that the FB coach and program would look into working with the NCAA but that they had not yet done so despite BJax situation which was already precarious since last fall. Now a full 10 months later we hear that BJAx drifted away and Hawk could not get in touch with him.

Does it not seem rather odd that they could not contact the guy to let him know they are working on his behalf. Is it not odd that at the same time he is "drifting" away the coaches son takes on the starting job.

No one can argue that Bjax decision to get involved in an alleged robbery is not wrong, but one has to wonder what teh Football program and Athletic Deoartment's role was in letting the kids that they recruit and bring to campus fall through the cracks.

As an intitution of higher learning, the coaches, staff and administrators have a responsibility to protect and guide these kids especuially since they reap the benefits totalling in the millions of $$ from their on field performance. I suppose use and throw away is the normwhen it comes to collegiate athletics- a sad notion for all.

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ryan Hewitt (TE, Mullen) committed to Stanford at their camp. That's the 4th TE Stanford has landed this cycle, what gives? How could we lose a talented in-stater at a position of need to a team that already had 3 TE (2 of which are 4-star) commits??

I hope that doesn't hurt us in the Alex Logan sweepstakes.

Posted by Black_Rob on June 25, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Not Craig Ochs. My cousin didn't play for him at CU.

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 25, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

what are you getting at cubuffone? "odd that at the same time he is "drifting" away the coaches son takes on the starting job" Cody is about a million times better then bjax and able to get it done in the class room!!! Bjax was not an option to play and coulodn't compete for the starting job because he couldn't get it done in class. The football program gave him every chance to get it done, they let him start and redshirted Cody when by all accounts he was even better as a true freshmen

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

cubuffone is off base. The athletic department and the program went out of their way for BJax many times. He is not a case of falling through the cracks.

He pulled away from people that tried to help him, he wasnt neglected for any reason. He was a team captain for crying out loud. This situation is no ones fault but Jax and Harris - period.

Posted by Black_Rob on June 25, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.allbuffs.com/forums/forumd...

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 25, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

please share Tall? Scout has Wahington as his top school and doesn't even list NU and Rivals has NU as medium interest???

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

I'm not going to bash BJax for his struggles in the classroom or on the field - by all accounts he worked hard, tried his best but just had a hard time due to a myriad of circumstances. It's a shame that he had to resort to armed robbery whatever the reason was.

cubuffone, I take issue with your laying responsibility for his mis-deeds on Hawk and his staff. The article states that BJax drifted away, not coaches, despite attempts by the staff to continue to nurture his education. He was no longer eligible to play football and I respect the coaches for still reaching out even when he was no longer able to help the team on the field, lesser coaches would not have made that effort.

It's a shame when these young men fall through the cracks, but ultimately they are adults who must take responsibility for their own actions/decisions/mistakes - BJax is learning that now whether he likes it or not, and I hope he comes out the other side a better person for it.

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tall - if Logan is dumb enough to be high on NU, they can have him. If he is smart enough to want CU, we welcome him.

So what is your point ? I heard NU is applying to opt out of the Big XII in order to join the Sun Belt Conference. They are already playing half the conference next year.

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

what I am getting at is that it was somehow convenient to let BJax fade from the picture becasue of academics. No effort was made to get the waiver. Sure Bjax had a responsibility to stay on top of his work but the department had an obligation to provide the necessary support. When he became inelligible last fall an appeal should have been made, but as we know from the DC article in February no appeal was made yet and Hawk had not contacted the NCAA. How long does it take to draft a memo and get it to the NCAA? Come on!!!!

As we all know QB's or athletes are a dime a dozen, you can always replace them if they get hurt or fall through the cracks. My beef is that we do not take care of our athletes, just use them. It is wrong and unconscionable. We should not recruit kids that can't make it unless we are willing to ensure they succeed. I know the program and the academic support is simply not there despite Bohn's statements. Look at the latest scores that came out last month. FB is failing itskids and as a result we should not be surprised if some of them drift into questionable activities.

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 12:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

well said baBuff

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The program continued to try to help Jackson long after it was obvious they were getting nothing in return athletically. They tried to help him become a man and a graduate and he is the failure, not them.

An athletic waiver is the last thing he needed. A degree for him and his family was more important to the program then using him for a sport.

Get your $#%@ing facts straight before you spout off about what should and shouldn't be done.

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 25, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

what were they going to appeal for cubuffone??? YOU HAVE TO BE IN GOOD ACADEMIC STANDING TO APPLY FOR AND BE GRANTED ANOTHER YEAR!!!!!!!

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What does the NCAA waiver have to do with Jackson's education? How would playing an extra year of football have helped him in the classroom? I don't see it as convenient at all, he may not have been a QB but by all accounts he was going to be one of the more athletically gifted players we had last year - we would have loved him to be eligible.

A 6th year of eligibility is hard enough to get when a player has a major injury, much less is failing academically. Did you consider the possibility that Hawk may have felt that football was a distraction to Jackson's studies? Playing football is a priveledge and maybe Hawk felt BJax was not up to the task of playing football and graduating so he took away football. They still honored his scholarship and he was allowed to stay in school. Sounds like great academic support to me.

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

there is what they call a hardship waiver/second redshirt which allows an athlete to stay in school and even play an additional year. Archalon you obviously do not work at CU or in the AD so you need to shut your trap. You do not know what you are talking about. I am sorry that the truth hurts your argument but the facts are what they are.

Bjax- if the aleegations are proven obviously has fouled up- no one disputes that, but once again the point is that the AD fails its athletes. You don't seem to get that into your thick skull. We are supposed to provide a support system for our "student athletes" not just use them on the field and then look in amazement when the aggregate scores come back in the mid 800's and wonder "ohhhh what happened?"

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

in your opinion the privilege is getting to play football while the privilege should be getting a free education? You think we honestly bring kids so give them an opportunity to learn or so that they can play on the field and score touchdowns? If providing them a real education was part of the goal don't you think there would be more empahsis on achievement in the classroom? Instead 80% of Basketball and Football athletes are studying and encouraged to enroll in such fields as sociology, communications and other highly touted fields that will ensure their earning power after graduation.

Get real!

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cubuffone, you are completely exempting players for their own responsibility when it comes to being a STUDENT-ATHLETE.

You say that BJax has fouled up if alegations of his armed-robbery ar true, yet you blame the AD for him not succeeding in the classroom. Where is his ownership in this? The AD can provide all the help and support in the world, but if he doesn't accept it that's his decision and he has to deal with the consequences. Unfortunately in this case, the consequences were disasterous.

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I spent more time at the sink and the catacombs than I did in the classroom and I graduated....and I am pretty average in the IQ dept.

In spite of the "rash" of offenses recently, the vast majority of the players understand and appreciate the opportunity they possess and make the most of it.

I have no doubt that the AD provided plenty of support for B-jack. I have a hard time sympathizing

Starting a family before you are ready to support one also speaks of a lack of long term thinking. Perhaps I'm lucky that didnt happen with me but even the alchohol didnt dim my fathers words about a baby changing my lifestyle. And even if I did manage to unintentionaly bring another life in this world, what good would I be to it in jail?

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Since BJax was academically ineligable last year and that is the reason he did not play I don't see what the "hardship" would have been. If he didn't play because he had to care for his son that would be a hardship perhaps, but he didn't play because of academics so I would think the chance of the 6th year would have been nearly impossible to get. Also, since BJax didn't live up to his part (contacting the coaches on a daily basis) I'm not sure what else the athletic department could do. The whole situation is unfortunate.

Insinuating that the athletic department failed BJax simply because it gave Hawk a chance to play Cody is absurd. Even Tall probably thinks that is crazy.

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I sure hope so.
Tall always likes to bring up that 2-10 season and Bjack was a major part of it. When it came to passing he couldnt hit a bull in the a** with a base fiddle.
Anyone else might have said to themselves, "hmmmm, maybe I should consider an alternative to playing football for a living. In fact every player, and most probably do, should consider the same thing. Even sure draft picks can get one concussion to many or a career ending knee injury. It is a violent sport.
The best CU running back ever, in my opinion, was Charlie Davis. I thought he was better than Salam. He never got a chance to strut his stuff in the pros because of injury.

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pretty uneccassary (and ridiculous) swipe at everyone who ever got a sociology or communications degree - I'll bet more than a few of them were not athletes and went on to successful careers.

A free education is a privelege, but an education should be a right. BJax earned his free education with his athletic success, but when his athletic career was over the school allowed him to continue his free education - an opportunity which he did not fully take advantage of. As a student you are responsible for your own success or failure. The AD did not let BJax down.

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BTW does anyone out there know where Charlie wound up?

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I dont see anyone here agreeing with you cubuffone. Truth ? Facts ? arguments ? You make no sense. And I do know the system as a former student athlete that benefited from it. And you have what, read about it somewhere ?

Unlike you, I say athletes should take some PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY for their lives and quite becoming the tired cliche of "athletes whom the system failed". Each player had 5 years to complete a degree and each failed to do so. Jax even quit school - withdrew completely - to focus on training for the NFL. Dumb.

Even a complete moron - of which I was a teammate of many - knows how to:
a. Put a condom on
b. go to class
c. get a C in coursework
d. stay out of jail

If a guy can learn a playbook but cant learn those four basic tenets of being a college student, no system will save him from himself.

Quit enabling athletes to make excuses for themselves.

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

on a tangent, I would support the notion of mandatory freshman redshirts in the NCAA.

If the entire system is serious about graduating players and building citizens, forcing athletes to get 30 semester credits under their belts before playing is a good way to start.

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Josh Nunes QB to Tennessee - I didn't see that one coming.

Tennessee reminds me a lot of Nebraska - Used to compete for championships, but has gotten lost as the rest of their conference rose up around them leaving them behind. Now just a team that used to be good and is now a middle of the pack team in their conference.

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Again I never argued in favor of his action, nor did I justify them. I never even suggested that he is a great QB. I merely pointed out that the college programs have a flaw. You should quit encouraging the system to recruit students that definitely can't make it academically at this institution just so that you can get off hi-fiving your drunk friends on Saturday afternoons.

if you were an athlete at CU you are lying about academic support because we both know that they have nothing upstairs at Dal Ward. Have you even been up there recently? Yes a couple of volunteer tutors and a few old pc's in the study room, but that does not add up to support does it?

Posted by cubuffone on June 25, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Archalon-I agree with your last post it would be worth exploring.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Two successful high profile prior former coaches? I can't see putting Patton in the successful bucket. I guess it depends on the measure.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The most successful coach CU has is the ski coach.

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nobody recruits students that "definitely can't make it academically" - what pupose would that serve to spend a scholarship on a kid that hey know won't remain eligible. These kids have to get qualifying scores to be enrolled at CU (which has higher entrance standards than other schools - hence our trouble getting JC kids to transfer).

CU recruits athletes they think will perform on the field and pass their classes, but no one has a crystal ball. Hell, the university accepts 8,000 undergrads every year (non-athletes) and I'm sure plenty of them are booted out because they can't get the grades in school - is the entire university system flawed too?

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

After spending the first 3 weeks of the season without tv exposure, NU will hardly be 'high profile' as well...........

Apparently no one wants to see the Big Red Nancies on TV

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

definitely not high profile - but most successful nonetheless. I never had any confidence that Patton could compete for a Big 12 title. Remains to be seen is Bz can, but Patton didn't move the program forward competitively with the exception of when Chauncy was there.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's more than most pay per view boxing matches these days.

Posted by archalon on June 25, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That going to pay your Sun Belt Conference entry fee in 2009 ? Rumor is that they're afraid NU's reputation will bring down their conference.

I cant wait for the corn-cobs to blow $50 on ppv to see WMU win the opener.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As long as they don't give up 51 or more Bo may squeeze out a W.

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 25, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tall- did you see that rivals has FSU rated #37, 8 spots ahead of NU. You claim that CU scheduled a "cupcake" in FSU, what does that make NU??

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NU might hang 50 on WMU, but their terrible defense might give up 65...

Posted by shoulder2shoulder on June 25, 2008 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

how many is V Tech behind WV, way to avoid the question??? :)

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Any team who doesn't play a road game until October should be in the top 25, or it's a major failure.

My most recent memory of a new coach implementing a new system to a team with little talent ended with a 2-10 season. NU fans probably should not get their hopes up this year.

Posted by flabuff227 on June 25, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

that woud be a huge feat!

Posted by flabuff227 on June 25, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He has to put together a 8 win season or else he shoul be fired. Win or go home, right?

Posted by rodrigo on June 25, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Careful, tall.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recruit...

What's up when Nebraska can't keep its own? Apparently not everyone is drinking the BoP-aid.

Posted by rodrigo on June 25, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nebraska's top players not wanting to be Cornhuskers? Wow. Bo better watch his step. Then again he did give scholarships to two Nebraska boys who would have been walk-ons elsewhere. Like they say, charity starts at home.

Of course then there's this:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008...

Not everyone shares your opinion of dad and son Hawkins either...

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

a shut out against VT?
tall is stroking himself again
careful tall, you might go blind

Posted by michiganbuff on June 25, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

New poster here. I've been reading comments at this site for several months and feel compelled to add my humble opinion. I'm not from Colorado nor did I attend CU, but I began following the Buffs in '87 and consider them my team. The next thing for you to know is that I love college football and follow many programs.
If you read any local paper in a college town in the US there are accounts of players or former players doing something they ought naught to have. Nobody but nobody runs a squeaky clean program even with the best of intentions. I am not out to disparsage any particular program and mention these because I am interested in them. Have any of you read about Washington State as of late? Montana has a great FCS program, but had a rough 2007 off the field. Their instate rival Montana State had several bad years off the field. I live in between Lansing (MSU) and Ann Arbor (UM). Those programs have had their share of bad press involving player misconduct. In the past several weeks I have seen headlines of college football players being arrested for a multiple of misdeeds. Nobody these days is immune from the wider culture problem we are seeing. Mix a lack of resonsibility with alcohol and a few other socioeconomic problems and you have the root cause of the problems.
I don't think I would want to be a college coach in this day and age. We expect them to beat everyone on the schedule (be honest, we do) and look good doing it. Then we expect them to be surrogate parents when the NCAA legislates how much contact they can have in the off-season. Then make sure they go to class and pass the class in a degree program no less.
Obviously some coaches do a much better job than others with expectations and discipline. I for one support Dan Hawkins and believe he is doing the best he can. I believe him when he says he is frustrated, embarrassed etc. These players are not blank slates when he gets them at 18-19 years of age. But I appreciate that he tries to get the best out of them despite what has has been written on their slate. I notice that Coach Hawkins does indeed hold his players accountable. He has suspended or dismissed players for their actions. I do not believe that Coach Hawkins is building a rogue program. In fact, it is my belief he is doing a credible job and I support him. I think we can expect that as time passes there will be less incidences, but don't count on there being none.
One other point, were these eight arrests the only ones made in Boulder the past six or so months? I know, it's not news when Johnny Drugdealer gets caught. He's not getting a free education while catching passes in front of the adoring fans.

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry tall
I now noticed you were talking about shuting out WM.
I still thionk that is a fantasy. I'm definitely going to remember this call.

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

thanks for post michiganbuff
there is a guy here named rswright who will probably attack you any minute.

speaking of no blank slates, NU is probably feeling releved Josh Williams went on his robbery spree before enrolling. then again, will we see him on the field anyway? anyone know his disposition?

Posted by flabuff227 on June 25, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

that is no surpise to me. Maybe jimmy johns (lb from alabama) can transfer to nebraska.

Posted by baBUFF on June 25, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Cut his teeth as a DC, not a head coach. Never been a head coach. There's going to be a huge learning curve and it already appears he did not cut his teeth recruiting in all those years.

Hawk came to CU with a 53-10 record in his previous 5 seasons as a head coach at Boise State. That's better than Nebraska or OU did over the last 5 years and even with LSU and Bo wasn't even the head coach. Sounds like Boise had the winning program with Hawk.

Posted by flabuff227 on June 25, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ep- why are teams more lenient on players who are technically on the team but not enrooled yet. ie:josh williams,josh jarboe.No suspensions whatsoever?

Posted by flabuff227 on June 25, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

babuff- Ive explained that to him numerous times. He doesnt seem to comprehend those minor details.

Posted by salsajohn on June 25, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hay Talli. Not only did NU lose out on a top local OT (OUCH), but they also missed out on a top California QB Bo was really going after. It's really starting to look like Bo P can't get it done on the recruiting trail. Tradition must not sell like it used to.

What's going to happen when NU drops three in a row in midseason then loses the last four to close out the year 5-7. Can you say year 2 of de-commits (assuming NU has any in the first place).

Posted by extrapoint on June 25, 2008 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tall doesnt give a poop about NU. He just uses them to needle us and further his pro Barnett - anti Hawk agenda, which started before Hawk even held a practice.

when the Bo goes 5-7, the Tall goes bowhunting.

Cant wait till opening day, both in Denver and Lincoln.

Posted by salsajohn on June 25, 2008 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Talli knows too much about NU not to give a hoot. He loves his Fuskers.

And if it is all about Barnett, how is Gary's search for another coaching job coming along? You'd think with the coaching carousel spinning full speed this past season, someone would have wanted GB.

Guess again.

Posted by MDBuff on June 25, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice mailbag Q and A tonight with Stuart Mandel of SI.com:

Usually by the third year, a coach really makes his mark on a program. So what do you see happening with Dan Hawkins at Colorado?
-- Martin, Austin, Texas

The Buffs are definitely a team you'd be smart to watch out for this season. Hawkins' team improved considerably from Year 1 (2-10) to Year 2 (6-7, with upsets over Oklahoma and Texas Tech). This year's team will be far more experienced, what with QB Cody Hawkins entering his second season and the possibility of as many as eight senior starters on defense. And if incoming freshman Darrell Scott -- the nation's top-rated running back recruit last winter -- lives up to the hype, he will give Hawkins exactly the type of elite skill player he's been missing.

The coach finally feels confident enough in his personnel to go to a no-huddle offense, and we may start to see more of the unconventional plays that marked his tenure at Boise State. The bigger question may be the defense, which absolutely tanked at the end of last season and lost its most important player, All-America LB Jordon Dizon.

We'll find out about the state of the Buffs pretty quickly -- after opening against Colorado State and Eastern Washington, Colorado goes through a daunting four-game gauntlet against West Virginia, Florida State, Texas and Kansas. If Hawkins' team can get a win at home against either the Mountaineers or Longhorns, it could set them up for an eight- or nine-win season.

Posted by bufffan8 on June 25, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kyle - we just broke 100 again. We need a new story.

Posted by buffma on June 25, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I know this point has been belabored. However I want to point out to cubuffone that each student athlete has mandatory study sessions, at which interns or ga's are present. They have tutors for each class should they need them. They also have been known to actually take these student athletes to class to make sure they are smart enough to get there. Just how much academic support to you think they should add? It is up to the player to do what he has to do, simple as that. Some choose to do the right thing others choose not to.

Posted by archalon on June 26, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Welcome michiganbuff

Thanks MD - I agree with Mandel. Though, I see WVU as a coming out party. Buffs can and will win that game, surprising everyone but themselves and true fans.

FSU is a coin flip, being on the road. But I really think they'll find a way to split KU\MU.

If the buffs go 3-1 in that stretch, tallisall will soil himself. But 2-2 is looking likely.

Posted by cubuffone on June 26, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

for all the loudmouths read this link-once more proof that fans like you, the NCAA, nad college sports are only interested in themselves not the kids.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?sl...

Posted by BuffTime on June 26, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How exactly does this article indict fans? Where are fans mentioned even once?

It does indict the NCAA as serving it's own interests. I don't think you will find anyone here arguing against that point. In fact, given how they handled the Jeremy Bloom decision I would wager that more than one poster here would say that we would be just fine if the NCAA just went away.

College isn't for everyone. If you are gifted enough to be able to make money playing a sport then that is just as acceptable a profession as being an engineer. I for one am a bit tired of the argument that everyone needs to go to college. It is a bit elitist (I have a Masters Degree if you care). That is not to say that these same people SHOULDN'T go to school if they want to. I am just saying that I think the NCAA has a wee it too much power. If Joe Blow can work any job and pay his way through school (or have an academic scholarship) why are student athletes prohibited so heavily? Don't give me the line about keeping boosters from paying the best athletes from going to their school. You can regulate that. No one can tell me honestly that Spyder was going to pay Jeremy to play football at CU.

Posted by houston_buff on June 26, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I kept reading and reading...Did anyone want to actually talk about the games? We have a great home schedule!! I have bashed Cody on this venue for a long time but I am a changed man. Can you imagine what can be done now with "he who once was nameless" with play action, bubble screens, reverses? We have a shot to polish the D in the first couple games and see if they can keep us in a couple of close ones. We are probably a year away from a B12 title shot but this is going to be a lot of fun. How about the WVU weekend? Thursday arrival for the late kick, golf Friday and Sat at Breck and the freakin' Donkeys at Invesco Sunday pm. Talk about a MANCATION. I cant wait.

Posted by archalon on June 27, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Im not following your point cubuffone. Let him do as he pleases. If the kid wants to go to europe then the NBA fine. If he's flipping burgers in 5 years, so be it. If not, good for him.

For me, there is no reason kids should skip an education, turn pro early, or what not. The kids use the system as much as anyone. They are all shooting for the one in a million chance of hitting a lottery type payday. I personally could care less if CU ever put another player in the NFL or NBA.

Mandatory RS for Freshman, 100% graduation rate and no crime associated with programs. Those are my goals - unrealistic, perhaps. But Im an idealist. I do care about the kids, and so do alot of programs. But as BJax and Harris have proven, you cant make them care about themselves.

No matter what Hawk or others do sometimes, you cant reach them. You can only do your best and hope they listen.

You can look at Lawrence Phillips, Maurice Clarett and a host of others - BJax soon to be included - that will spend significant time in jail no matter what anyone did to try and help, not use, them.

Posted by archalon on June 27, 2008 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone else planning on the WVU mancation ? I've been planning for months for the coming out party.

SI headline the next week:

GREAT SCOTT! - Colorado buffaloes past the Mountaineers and into the top 25 behind Darrel Scott's 3 TDs.

Posted by flabuff227 on June 27, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That headline sounds great to me

Posted by mam2jd on June 27, 2008 at 9:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Check out this link. Couldn't have said it better myself! Cabral is the MAN! Go BUFFS!

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefoot...

Posted by rswright on June 27, 2008 at 11:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MichiganBuff: Some rational thought here. Unlike our posters there was no knee jerk reaction "innoncent until proven guilty". Nor any hypocrisy throwing kids under the bus. (Duren).

It is better for our posters to say nothing, like they did with Duren and Jackson, than to claim this is all about Boulder police and other students being prejudiced against CU football players. Time after time we hear, "innocent until proven guilty" "every kid is entitled to a fight" "kids will be kids" crimes by football players only mirror those of the general student population, "CU paid 2.3 million to avoid bad publicity".
No one believes these denials and excuses. Why? Because we read about football violence and crimes every day in the paper. What makes you think CU football players are any different? Most people know there are a few bad apples, love football all the same and admire those men who comprise 99% of the team.

But by making excuses you hurt the program. Rational people read your comments and think I don't want my son to be part of a culture that makes excuses for a 275 lb. player who is responsible for putting three plates in another kids head and giving him a possible life long brain injury, breaking a kid's jaw or putting another kid's head through the wall. So, it is better not to say anything than deny what everyone else knows is true.

Posted by extrapoint on June 28, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

there you have it folks.
wisdom of the ages
gross exaggeration is fine, excuses are not
a crime is a crime
get rid of football and violence will disappear from society
"God is great!"
(fatwah by abdullah rs)

thanks again rs, for telling us all what we say and think.
"...rational thought..."? my dyin' a**!

"No one believes these excuses....."
anyone else here agree with rs? ???
speak now

Posted by rswright on June 28, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey EP, tell us how you stood up for Duren. The first to make excuses, the last to admit hypocrisy.

Posted by BuffTime on June 28, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do tell RS. Exactly what excuse should we give for Duren? The guy has reportedly had a long list of issues and the single incident you keep harping about was just the last straw. Where exactly is the hypocrisy in telling a kid that he can't keep messing up and expect to be a part of the team and giving another player the same condition? No one says that Katoa, Sipili etc. should have unlimited opportunities to mess up. In fact I would be surprised if Sipili for one would be allowed another infraction.

If you are going to next spout off on the starter vs non-starter hypocrisy then I would like to head you off by stating that the very day that Duren made his last mistake he had had a pretty good day in the Spring game. He had a very real chance of being an impact player this coming season. The dude couldn't keep his s&*t together and he was booted off the team. It wasn't a single act that did him in.

Posted by extrapoint on June 28, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

no rs
you tell me how I stood up for Duren
find the post, jerkoff
there aint one
I never made any comment about Duren
That is your whole MO ....to put words in other people's mouths.
You speak of rational thought but you cant differentiate between crimes
you cant differentiate bewtween charged and guilty
you dont understand it takes 2 people to fight...probably because you think you have never done anything wrong.

and also last but not least, your whole gas blowing aint about right and wrong as it pertains to the football team, it is just a war YOU started with every other poster on these boards that your ego is desperate to win.
you are a sick puppy

Posted by rswright on June 28, 2008 at 6:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EP: "If I was a big shot in the school admin I would be pushing this to the bitter end. (oh yeah and Lisa wouldnt have gotten a dime)".

That's why you aren't a big shot.

EP: "you tell me how I stood up for Duren
find the post, jerkoff
there aint one."

You are right. That is the point. You stood up for everyone but Duren. Isn't he "innocent until proven guilty", also isn't he just a kid and "kids will be kids". Instead of going to bat for him like you did for everyone else you threw him under the bus.

Bufftime: Our posters have crimes they like (assault)and crimes they don't (robbery, criminal trespass). They come up with excuses for assault (kids will be kids). When Sipili got sued, our posters told the victim to get on with his life. But Sipili put three plates in a kids head and gave him a possible life long brain injury. Can you really compare that with criminal trespass (what ever that is). Now Duren maybe deserved to be thrown off the team but he is still a kid and didn't deserve to be thrown under the bus which is what our posters did.

Posted by extrapoint on June 28, 2008 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

do dee do do
this has become the twilight zone
rs wright is spinning far beyond coherency
nothing new here, I'm done
hope this thing doesnt keep you from sleeping, rs

Posted by rswright on June 29, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well done, ep. Another brilliant post.

Posted by extrapoint on June 29, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

doesnt matter what I say dimwit
I'm either skewered for standing up for Duren or I'm throwing him under the bus if I dont mention him.
By this you just proved beyond a doubt your only purpose on these boards is to somehow salvage your ego by trying to make one of us look as foolish as you.
You are a complete idiot.
No one here puts a soiled farthing on any of your "rational thought."

Posted by flabuff227 on June 30, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rs is a selective reader. For someone who only sees thing in black and white ie: sipili,geer and katoa you should UNDERSTAND that there wasn't a second party involved in the duren case. Cops found him passed out drunk in a hallway,bleeding.One more time, THERE WERE PROBLEMS WITH HIM BEFORE. rs- If it were up to you, you'd have first time offenders thrown off the team ( "throwing them under the bus"). The players that some of us defend. But when we dont defend duren, who had a HISTORY we are "throwing him under the bus".And this is the player that you defend. Wheres your rationale. Its amazing how you twist and distort things. You conveniently leave out facts so u can try to prove your point. Im on to you.

Posted by flabuff227 on June 30, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"well done ep.Another brilliant post".

At least he doesn't distort the truth. We go off what we read. You conger up things in your head. You read what you wanna read. You hear what you wanna hear.

theirs a saying that i like. " Its not a lie if you believe it".George costanza

I think thats very relevant in your case.

Posted by rodrigo on June 30, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rs and rational thought? In the same sentence? Yet to see that.

Posted by rswright on July 1, 2008 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh really Rod. Tell us again how "innocent until proven guilty" is in the Constitution. Or that the right to bear arms isn't.

Flabuff: Maybe Duren deserved being thrown off the team. That is not the point, the point is that he is a kid and don't all kids deserve a little leeway? Our posters tell us Katoa might have made a mistake but he will learn from it,hopefully get on with his life and be a better person for it. Why don't you say the same for Duren? Hypocritical posters, that why.
When there is a chance that it was self defense you jump on it and defend him. When the guilt is obvious you throw him under the bus. Can't you see that it doesn't matter?

Posted by extrapoint on July 1, 2008 at 9:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

are you sure it was Rod, rs? and not archalon?

who did Fla throw under the bus again? so many people getting thrown under the bus, Boulder will have to turn to rickshaws.

Rs never threw anyone under the bus. they all be guilty instead.

and what are we going to do about that dead horse? the smell and redundancy is making Tall queasy.

no one here fits rs's brittle view of the world so you are all a bunch of hypocrits! case closed! class dismissed!

tune in next week for another episode of "as rs turns" (of course it will be the same old rerun.)

today CU.....tomorrow the world!

PS send in 2 boxtops of cap'n crunch cereal and get an authentic rswright coffee mug emblazoned with his inspirational motto...."I'll get you guys if it is the last thing ever I do!"

Posted by rswright on July 7, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nothing has been stated here that wasn't said by our posters first. Tired of hearing what you say repeated? "innocent until proven guilty" "CU paid to avoid the publicity" "kids will be kids". If you get skewed by your own words, and don't like it, don't say it.